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particular theology, triumphant in having divined the inner meaning of some
esoteric operations, like a medieval Jesuit hot on the trail of the final
ontological proof, whose conciseness in solving a single problem makes them
almost swoon with ecstacy at the expected savings of many keystrokes, as if
those very keystrokes represented a lot of heavy lifting and hauling on their
part.
      -- John Holmgren, 18 Jun 1998

    > In general, the situation sucks.
    mind-if-i-use-that-as-my-epitaph<wink>?-ly y'rs - tim
      -- Timothy J. Grant and Tim Peters, 22 Jun 1998

    > Just for the record, on AIX, the following C program:
    Oh no you don't! I followed AIX threads for the first year it came out, but
eventually decided there was no future in investing time in baffling
discussions that usually ended with "oh, never mind -- turns out it's a bug"
<0.9 wink>.
      -- Vladimir Marangozov and Tim Peters, 23 Jun 1998

Python - why settle for snake oil when you can have the *whole* snake?
      -- Mark Jackson, 26 Jun 1998

The problem I have with "SETL sets" in Python is the same I have with every
other language's "killer core" in Python: SETL is much more than just "a set
type", Eiffel is much more than just fancy pre- and post- conditions, Perl's
approach to regexps is much more than just its isolated regexp syntax, Scheme
is much more than just first-class functions & lexical closures, and so on.
Good languages aren't random collections of interchangeable features: they have
a philosophy and internal coherence that's never profitably confused with their
surface features.
      -- Tim Peters, 10 Jul 1998

    "Since I'm so close to the pickle module, I just look at the pickles
directly, as I'm pretty good at reading pickles."
    "As you all can imagine, this trick goes over really well at parties."
      -- Jim Fulton and Paul Everitt on the Bobo list, 17 Jul 1998

My theory is that the churning of old threads and reminiscences (Continuations,
Icon influences, old-T-shirts, the pre news-group mailing list archive,
whitespace, closures, .... ) has brought some old messages to the surface, via
some mechanism similar to the way plankton and other nutrients are cycled in
the ocean.
      -- Steven D. Majewski, 23 Jul 1998

In general, Our Guido flees from schemes that merely change *which* foot gets
blown off <0.45 caliber wink>. Schemes that remove the firing pin entirely have
a much better, um, shot <wink>.
      -- Tim Peters, 25 Jul 1998

I don't know what "invert the control structure" means -- but if it's anything
like turning a hamster inside-out, I would *expect* it to be messy <wink>.
      -- Tim Peters, 25 Jul 1998

This makes it possible to pass complex object hierarchies to a C coder who
thinks computer science has made no worthwhile advancements since the invention
of the pointer.
      -- Gordon McMillan, 30 Jul 1998

The nice thing about list comprehensions is that their most useful forms could
be implemented directly as light sugar for ordinary Python loops, leaving
lambdas out of it entirely. You end up with a subtly different beast, but so
far it appears to be a beast that's compatible with cuddly pythons.
      -- Tim Peters, 6 Aug 1998

I wonder what Guido thinks he might do in Python2 (assuming, of course, that he
doesn't hire a bus to run over him before then <wink>).
      -- Tim Peters, 26 Aug 1998

After writing CGI scripts the traditional way for a few years, it is taking
awhile to reshape my thinking. No sledgehammer to the head yet, but lots of
small sculpting hammers...
      -- John Eikenberry on the Bobo list, 27 Aug 1998

I believe sometimes numbers creep into my programs as strings, so '4'/2 needs
to also be 2. Other languages do this. Since this is due in part to user input,
I guess 'four'/2, 'quattro/2', 'iv/2' etc. need to be 2 as well; don't know any
other language that does so, but Python could take the lead here in software
reliability. Any white space should be ignored, including between my ears. I
don't have time to write any useful software, so I've decided to devote myself
to proposing various changes to the Python interpreter.
      -- Donn Cave uses sarcasm with devastating effect, 28 Aug 1998

then-again-if-history-were-important-god-wouldn't-have-hid- it-in-the- past-ly
y'rs
      -- Tim Peters, 28 Aug 1998

> >( float ( / 1 3 ))
> 0.33333333333333331
 Now *that* one is impressive: it's the best possible 17-digit decimal
representation of the best possible 53-bit fp binary representation of 1/3, and
17 is the minimum number of decimal digits you need in general so that a 53-bit
binary fp value can be exactly reconstructed by a best-possible atof.
      -- Tim Peters, 2 Sep 1998

This is not a technical issue so much as a human issue; we are limited and so
is our time. (Is this a bug or a feature of time? Careful; trick question!)
      -- Fred Drake on the Documentation SIG, 9 Sep 1998

There are also some surprises [in the late Miocene Australia] some small
mammals totally unknown and not obviously related to any known marsupial
(appropriately awarded names such as _Thingodonta_ and _Weirdodonta_) and a
giant python immortalized as _Montypythonoides_.
      -- _The Book of Life_, found by Aaron Watters

    Can the denizens of this group enlighten me about what the advantages of
Python are, versus Perl ?
    "python" is more likely to pass unharmed through your spelling checker than
"perl".
      -- An unknown poster and Fredrik Lundh, 11 Sep 1998

I have to say that the Dragon book is good when you consider the alternatives,
but compared with the Platonic ideal it leaves much to be desired. In
particular the algorithm descriptions are described at such a low level it's
difficult to understand how they work -- and at a higher conceptual level
involving graph theoretical transforms of automata (which I got thanks to Jean
Gallier by word of mouth and effort of chalk) is nearly invisible for the
trees.
      -- Aaron Watters, 17 Sep 1998

... and at a higher conceptual level involving graph theoretical transforms of
automata (which I got thanks to Jean Gallier by word of mouth and effort of

t/data/python_quotes.txt  view on Meta::CPAN

      -- A.M. Kuchling, 5 May 2000

Once you've read and understood _The Art of the Metaobject Protocol_ you are
one quarter of the way to provisional wizard status. (The other three-fourths
are b) understanding Haskell's monads, c) grokking Prolog, and d) becoming
handy with a combinator- based language by implementing a Forth.)
      -- Neel Krishnaswami, 9 May 2000

"The future" has arrived but they forgot to update the docs.
      -- R. David Murray, 9 May 2000

/* This algorithm is from a book written before the invention of structured
programming... */
      -- Comment in parser/pgen.c, noted by Michael Hudson

For more information please see my unpublished manuscript on steam driven
turing machines. [2000pp in crayon donated to the harvard library -- they never
told me whether they filed it under mathematics, philosophy, logic, mechanical
engineering, or computational science]
      -- Aaron Watters, 12 May 2000

    Me? I hate the whole lambda calculus, not because of what it is, but
because of what many people think it is. They think that it's the whole of
computer science, the ultimate way to express and reason about programs, when
in reality it's merely a shabby and incomplete model of how Fortran fails to
work. The first thing SICP has to do is teach everyone how bad the lambda
calculus model is -- as part of teaching them about a language allegedly based
on lambda calculus.
    I'm sorry, was my bias showing again? :-)
      -- William Tanksley, 13 May 2000

I never got beyond starting the data-structures in C++, I never got beyond
seeing how it would work in Scheme. I finished it in one Python -filled
afternoon, and discovered the idea sucked big time. I was glad I did it in
Python, because it only cost me one afternoon to discover the idea sucks.
      -- Moshe Zadka, 13 May 2000

In truth, we use 'j' to represent sqrt(-1) for exactly the same reason we use a
convention for the direction of current which is exactly the opposite of the
direction the electrons actually travel: because it drives physicists crazy.
(And if we pick up a few mathematicians or whatever along the way, well, that's
just gravy. ;-)
      -- Grant R. Griffin, 14 May 2000

Unicode: everyone wants it, until they get it.
      -- Barry Warsaw, 16 May 2000

I saw a hack you sent me a few months ago and approved of its intent and was
saddened by its necessity.
      -- Jim Fulton, 16 May 2000

Suspicions are most easily dispelled/confirmed via evidence, and taking the
trouble to do this has the pleasant side-effect that you can either cease
expending effort worrying, or move directly to taking positive action to
correct the problem.
      -- Neel Krishnaswami, 21 May 2000

Thanks to the overnight turnaround and the early interpreter's habit of
returning nothing at all useful if faced with a shortage of )s, one could
easily detect the LISP users: they tended to walk around with cards full of
)))))))... in their shirt pockets, to be slapped onto the end of submitted card
decks: one at least got something back if there were too many )s.
      -- John W. Baxter, 21 May 2000

Python: embodies a harmony of chocolate kisses with hints of jasmine and rose.
Trussardi's wild new fragrance.
      -- From _Marie Claire_, Australian edition, May 2000; noted by Fiona
         Czuczman

In arts, compromises yield mediocre results. The personality and vision of the
artist has to go through. I like to see Python as a piece of art. I just hope
the artist will not get too tainted by usability studies.
      -- François Pinard, 22 May 2000

In fact, I've never seen an argument about which I cared less. I'm completely
case insensitivity insensitive.
      -- William Tanksley, 23 May 2000

They boo-ed when Dylan went electric. But for me its about the instincts of a
designer, and the faith of a fan. Not science. So much the better.
      -- Arthur Siegel, 23 May 2000

Burroughs did something very odd with COBOL at one point (and no, it wasn't The
Naked Lunch).
      -- Will Rose, 27 May 2000

Code generators are hacks. Sometimes necessary hacks, but hacks nevertheless.
      -- Paul Prescod, 7 Jun 2000

Very rough; like estimating the productivity of a welder by the amount of
acetylene used.
      -- Paul Svensson, on measuring programmer productivity by lines of
         code, 19 Jun 2000

I vote for backward compatibility for now, and not only because that will
irritate /F the most.
      -- Tim Peters, 30 Jun 2000

A comment is in order then. If the code is smarter than it looks, most people
aren't going to think it looks very smart.
      -- Jeremy Hylton, 6 Jul 2000

You and I think too much alike ?!ng. And if that doesn't scare you now, you
should have a talk with Gordon.
      -- Barry Warsaw, 12 Jul 2000

Isn't it somewhat of a political statement to allow marriages of three or more
items? I always presumed that this function was n-ary, like map().
      -- Paul Prescod, on the proposed name marry() for a function to
         combine sequences, 12 Jul 2000

Since my finger was slowest reaching my nose, I got elected Editor. On the
positive side of that, I get to make the early decisions that will be cursed
for generations of Python hackers to come.
      -- Barry Warsaw, 12 Jul 2000

Hey, you know, we can work this in. Sailor Moon + Giant Robots + Tentacle
Demons + Python Conference == Bizarre hilarity ensues!
      -- Alexander Williams, 4 Aug 2000

The rapid establishment of social ties, even of a fleeting nature, advance not
only that goal but its standing in the uberconscious mesh of communal psychic,
subjective, and algorithmic interbeing. But I fear I'm restating the obvious.
      -- Will Ware, 28 Aug 2000

The comp.lang.python newsgroup erupted last week with a flurry of posts that
accused the Python development team of creeping featurism, selling out the
language to corporate interests, moving too fast, and turning a deaf ear to the
Python community. What triggered this lava flow of accusations? The development
team accepted a proposal to change the syntax of the print statement.
      -- Stephen Figgins, 30 Aug 2000

    INTERVIEWER: Tell us how you came to be drawn into the world of pragmas.
    COMPILER WRITER: Well, it started off with little things. Just a few
boolean flags, a way to turn asserts on and off, debug output, that sort of
thing. I thought, what harm can it do? It's not like I'm doing anything you
couldn't do with command line switches, right? Then it got a little bit
heavier, integer values for optimisation levels, even the odd string or two.
Before I knew it I was doing the real hard stuff, constant expressions,
conditionals, the whole shooting box. Then one day when I put in a hook for
making arbitrary calls into the interpreter, that was when I finally realised I
had a problem...
      -- Greg Ewing, 31 Aug 2000

The modules people have built for Python are like the roads the Romans built
through Europe. On this solid ground, you can move fast as you work on aspects
of program design that aren't so analytical -- user interface, multi-threaded
event dispatching models, all kinds of things that can be done a lot of
different ways and are hard to get right the first time through.
      -- Donn Cave, 3 Sep 2000

Python 2.0 beta 1 is now available from BeOpen PythonLabs. There is a long list
of new features since Python 1.6, released earlier today. We don't plan on any
new releases in the next 24 hours.
      -- Jeremy Hylton, in the 2.0b1 announcement, 5 Sep 2000

Fortunately, you've left that madness behind, and entered the clean, happy, and
safe Python world of transvestite lumberjacks and singing Vikings.
      -- Quinn Dunkan, 17 Sep 2000

Regular expressions are among my most valued tools, along with goto, eval,
multiple inheritance, preemptive multithreading, floating point, run-time type
identification, a big knife, a bottle of bleach, and 120VAC electricity. All of
these things suck sometimes.
      -- Kragen Sitaker, 27 Sep 2000

    IIRC, he didn't much care for regexps before, but actually writing a regexp
engine drives most people who do it to intense hatred.
    Just more of the magic of Python! Transmuting a few peoples' intense agony
into the subject of others' idle amusement <wink>.
      -- Tim Peters, 27 Sep 2000

"I do not love thee, lambda; let me count the ways..."
      -- Aahz Maruch, 27 Sep 2000

They are called "Exceptions" because to any policy for handling them, imposed
in advance upon all programmers by the computer system, some programmers will
have good reason to take exception.
      -- William Kahan, quoted by Tim Peters, 13 Oct 2000

"Interim steps" have a tendency to become permanent in our industry, where
"Compatibility" is the way the sins of the fathers are inflicted upon the third
and fourth generations ...
      -- William Kahan, quoted by Huaiyu Zhu, 16 Oct 2000

The most successful projects I've seen and been on *did* rewrite all the code
routinely, but one subsystem at a time. This happens when you're tempted to add
a hack, realize it wouldn't be needed if an entire area were reworked, and mgmt
is bright enough to realize that hacks compound in fatal ways over time. The
"ain't broke, don't fix" philosophy is a good guide here, provided you've got a
very low threshold for insisting "it's broke".
      -- Tim Peters, 25 Oct 2000

Humour is a tricky thing. Some people can't even get the spelling right.
      -- Richard Brodie, 30 Oct 2000

    The same way as you get the name of that cat you found on your porch: the
cat (object) itself cannot tell you its name, and it doesn't really care -- so
the only way to find out what it's called is to ask all your neighbours
(namespaces) if it's their cat (object)...
    ....and don't be surprised if you'll find that it's known by many names, or
no name at all!
      -- Fredrik Lundh, 3 Nov 2000, in answer to the question "How can I
         get the name of a variable from C++ when I have the PyObject*?"

These are mostly nice features, to be sure, but they're also just that:
features. C++ has features. Python doesn't have a stellar score on my
elegance-o-meter, but for me its major win is the lack of features, and lack of
ambiguities. It fits in my brain.
      -- Quinn Dunkan, 18 Nov 2000

When explaining programming I sometimes compare programmers to photographers:
amateur photographers talk about cameras and lenses and gadgets. They know how
to make their camera do almost anything, and they are keen to argue the merits
of their favorite tools. Professional photographers talk about contrast and
lighting and composition. The camera is almost irrelevant. Ansel Adams used
cameras that were less sophisticated than a supermarket disposable, back when
photography was slow and tedious (like batch-oriented programming). Because the
technology was so primitive, he carefully planned his photographs and developed
discipline so he could reliably make excellent photographs over and over.
      -- Greg Jorgensen, 26 Nov 2000

As you might have guessed, I didn't do this just for fun. It is the old game of
explaining what is there, convincing everybody that you at least know what you
are talking about, and then three days later coming up with an improved
application of the theory.
      -- Christian Tismer, 11 Dec 2000

Have they sprouted a new timbot, more geared towards newbies, more polite and
friendly maybe, with a touch of human fallibility (hence the occasional slip of
the keyboard) and named it Alex?
      -- Carel Fellinger, 12 Dec 2000

I'm spending most of my waking hours understanding this patch -- it is a true
piece of wizardry.
      -- GvR, discussing a patch from Neil Schemenauer, 13 Dec 2000

    Maybe they took solidity *for granted*, because, in their (Renaissance)
times and in their (Architecture) calling, compromises regarding solidity were
simply unthinkable. Well, we're not so lucky, in the software field, today; the
Firmitas of *by far* most software around is imperfect.
    We *must* live by "do the simplest thing that can possibly work" -- give
solidity its proper, foremost place. One of the debilitating factors for much
current software is a misplaced emphasis on assumed 'convenience' (funky GUIs,
quirky shortcuts, special cases aplenty) to the detriment of solidity. A small
but crucial step to reverse this trend, is to start by putting the order right
once more... the way Vitruvius had it!
      -- Alex Martelli, 13 Dec 2000

The Martellibot Mark 1 has a completely European flavour to it, and adds a
cosmopolitan touch of linguistics to its output, sprinkling foreign language
references in. It is similar to the timbot in its overall erudition, but can be
distinguished from it by its tendency to indulge in flamewars (which, I
believe, it does mostly to convince us it is human).
      -- Steve Holden, 13 Dec 2000

    In keeping with the religious nature of the battle-- and religion offers
precise terms for degrees of damnation! --I suggest:
    struggling -- a supported feature; the initial state of all features; may
transition to Anathematized
    anathematized -- this feature is now cursed, but is supported; may
transition to Condemned or Struggling; intimacy with Anathematized features is
perilous
    condemned -- a feature scheduled for crucifixion; may transition to
Crucified, Anathematized (this transition is called "a pardon"), or Struggling
(this transition is called "a miracle"); intimacy with Condemned features is
suicidal
    crucified -- a feature that is no longer supported; may transition to
Resurrected
    resurrected -- a once-Crucified feature that is again supported; may
transition to Condemned, Anathematized or Struggling; although since
Resurrection is a state of grace, there may be no point in human time at which
a feature is identifiably Resurrected (i.e., it may *appear*, to the
unenlightened, that a feature moved directly from Crucified to Anathematized or
Struggling or Condemned -- although saying so out loud is heresy).
      -- Tim Peters, 18 Dec 2000

my-python-code-runs-5x-faster-this-month-thanks-to-dumping-$2K- on-a-
new-machine-ly y'rs
      -- Tim Peters, 26 Dec 2000

Really, I should pronounce on that PEP (I don't like it very much but haven't
found the right argument to reject it :-) ) so this patch can either go in or
be rejected.
      -- GvR, 04 Jan 2001, in a comment on patch #101264

The rest is history: the glory, the fame, the riches, the groupies, the
adulation of my peers. We won't mention the financial scandal and subsequent
bankruptcy lest it discourage you for no good reason <wink>.
      -- Tim Peters, 14 Jan 2001

If you're using anything besides US-ASCII, I *stringly* suggest Python 2.0.
      -- Uche Ogbuji (A fortuitous typo?), 29 Jan 2001

    "There goes Tim, browsing the Playboy site just for the JavaScript.
Honest."
    "Well, it's not like they had many floating-point numbers to ogle! I like
'em best when the high-order mantissa bits are all perky and regular, standing
straight up, then go monster insane in the low-order bits, so you can't guess
*what* bit might come next! Man, that's hot. Top it off with an exponent field
with lots of ones, and you don't even need any oil. Can't say I've got a
preference for sign bits, though -- zero and one can both be saucy treats. Zero
is more of a tease, so I guess it depends on the mood."
      -- Barry Warsaw and Tim Peters, 3 Feb 2001

We were sincerely hoping that the Python core team would teach their employers
how to code Python, instead of the other way around...
      -- Pieter Nagel, 5 Feb 2001

This bug fix brought to you by the letters b, c, d, g, h, ... and the reporter
Ping.
      -- Jeremy Hylton in a checkin message for Python/compile.c, 12 Feb
         2001

    "It's in ClassModules.py you dumb f**k - can't you tell by the name?"
    "Furthermore, RTFM is much more effective if you do it gently and make them
feel nicely embarrassed, rather than having them just say 'well, fuck you too'
when reading the first insult, and not learn a thing."
    "Thanks. I'll try to keep that in mind the next time I flame myself."
      -- Phlip, following up to a query he'd posted earlier, and Thomas
         Wouters, 18 Feb 2001

    "Also, does the simple algorithm you used in Cyclops have a name?"
    "Not officially, but it answers to "hey, dumb-ass!"
      -- Neil Schemenauer, interested in finding strongly connected
         components in graphs, and Tim Peters, 23 Feb 2001

Make this IDLE version 0.8. (We have to skip 0.7 because that was a CNRI
release in a corner of the basement of a government building on a planet
circling Aldebaran.)
      -- GvR, in a CVS commit message, 22 Mar 2001

Python: programming the way Guido indented it.
      -- Digital Creations T-shirt slogan at IPC9

Stackless Python: programming the way Guido prevented it.
      -- Christian Tismer's title slide, at IPC9

I don't think we should use rational numbers for money because money isn't
rational.
      -- Moshe Zadka, at IPC9

We can't stop people from complaining but we can influence what they complain
about.
      -- Tim Peters, at IPC9

Perl is like vise grips. You can do anything with it but it is the wrong tool
for every job.
      -- Bruce Eckel, at IPC9

Given the choice between a good text editor and a good source control system,
i'll take the source control, and use "cat" to write my code.
      -- Greg Wilson, at IPC9

here's the eff-bot's favourite lambda refactoring rule:
1) write a lambda function
2) write a comment explaining what the heck that lambda does
3) study the comment for a while, and think of a name that captures
   the essence of the comment
4) convert the lambda to a def statement, using that name
5) remove the comment
      -- Fredrik Lundh, 01 Apr 2001

The GPL tried to protect the freedom of end-users to modify and redistribute
their code. Most people do not believe that this is a legitimate freedom like
freedom of speech or assembly but Richard Stallman does. I don't think that
there is an argument that that will persuade a person one way or another. If
freedoms could be proven, that famous document would probably start: "Not
everyone holds these truths to be self-evident, so we've worked up a proof of
them as Appendix A."
      -- Paul Prescod, 11 Apr 2001

That is one of the first goals. Also, we want to handle a C++ SAX stream with
Python, and vice versa (feed a Python SAX stream into Xalan). Bi-SAXuality, in
a sense. :)
      -- Jürgen Hermann, 11 Apr 2001

As you seem totally unwilling or unable to understand that _Weltanschauung_ to
any extent, I don't see how you could bring Python any constructive enhancement
(except perhaps by some random mechanism akin to monkeys banging away on
typewriters until 'Hamlet' comes out, I guess).
      -- Alex Martelli, 17 Apr 2001

    "Are we more likely to add different concrete subclasses of Consumable in
the future, or different concrete subclasses of Consumer? I suspect the former
is more likely."
    "With genetic engineering being the latest growth industry, I'm not sure
that's true. Although I expect that any new models of cow, etc. will have a
backwards compatible food-consumption protocol."
      -- Alex Martelli and Greg Ewing, 19 Apr 2001

This property is called confluence, and the proof is called the Church -Rosser
theorem. I'm sure you know this, of course, but somewhere out there there's a
college student who is being shocked that CS is actually turning out to be
relevant, for sufficiently small values of relevance.
      -- Neelakantan Krishnaswami, 20 Apr 2001

if the style mafia finds out, you may find a badly severed list comprehension
in your bed one morning, but I'd say the risk is very low.
      -- Fredrik Lundh, 10 May 2001

1495 is a *deservedly* unpopular number. After all, Lorenzo de' Medici ("il
Magnifico") died in 1492, and Giovanni de' Medici ("dalle Bande Nere") wasn't
born until 1498, so 1495 fell right in the middle of a very boring and unusual
lull where no really outstanding member of the Medici family (either branch)
was around.
      -- Alex Martelli, 24 May 2001

    "What do you call the thing that pops up and says `Searching' or something
to reassure the user that his computer hasn't crashed and the application is
still running?"
    "On Windows, that's called 'a miracle'."
      -- Laura Creighton and Tim Peters, 28 May 2001

In general, my conclusion after doing numerical work for a while is that the
desire to look at algorithms crucial to your research as black boxes is futile.
In the end, I always had to dig into the details of the algorithms because they
were either never black-boxable or the black-box versions didn't do a good
enough job.
      -- David Ascher, 28 May 2001

    "Oh, read *all* Kahan has written, and if you emerge still thinking you
*know* what you're doing when floating point is involved, you're either Tim
Peters, or the world champ of hubris."
    "I find it's possible to be both <wink>."
      -- Alex Martelli and Tim Peters, 20 May 2001

Wow, this almost looks like a real flamefest. ("Flame" being defined as the
presence of metacomments.)
      -- GvR, 13 Jun 2001

    "Maybe we also have a smaller brain than the typical Lisper -- I would say,
that would make us more normal, and if Python caters to people with a
closer-to-average brain size, that would mean more people will be able to
program in Python. History will decide..."
    "I thought it already has, pretty much."
      -- GvR and A.M. Kuchling, 14 Jun 2001

Did Guido use the time machine to get a copy of the GoF book before he started
working on the first version of Python, or are Patterns just a transparent
attempt to cover for chronically inexpressive languages like C++ and Java which
can't generally implement these mind-numbingly simple constructs in code?
      -- Glyph Lefkowitz, 7 Jun 2001

Google confuses me; if you search for "michael hudson" my page is the third hit